A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he is willing to drop Ukraine's bid to join NATO - at least for now - if the U.S. offers concrete security measures to protect Ukraine against further Russian aggression. Zelenskyy is in Berlin today, continuing talks with Trump administration negotiators. It's not clear, though, that Russia will agree to a peace deal. NPR's Ukraine correspondent, Joanna Kakissis, is in Kyiv - joins us now to discuss the latest. Joanna, Ukraine, for a long time, has really wanted NATO membership to protect itself from Russian aggression. So why would Volodymyr Zelenskyy be willing to stop pursuing it now?
JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: Well, at this point, A, Zelenskyy acknowledges Ukraine is not going to be part of NATO any time soon. The Kremlin claims Ukraine's NATO membership would threaten Russian security, and the U.S. and some European countries have been cautious about angering Moscow. So Zelenskyy told reporters that in the absence of Ukraine actually joining NATO, something else is on the table.
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PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: (Speaking Ukrainian).
KAKISSIS: He's talking about the U.S. offering security guarantees similar to Article 5 of the NATO charter, saying that this could prevent another Russian attack on Ukraine. Zelenskyy calls this a compromise, but he did not explain how it would work for Ukraine or if the Trump administration will agree to it. But for those countries that are part of NATO, triggering Article 5 means the alliance defends a member state under attack.
MARTÍNEZ: Right. So does this compromise then mean that Ukraine and the U.S. are closer to agreeing to a peace plan to offer to Russia?
KAKISSIS: Well, it depends on how Trump's team responds to this and other parts of a counterproposal offered by Ukraine and its European allies. This counterproposal pushes for a ceasefire and security guarantees and says Ukraine will not cede any land it currently controls. The counterproposal came after a plan last month by Trump special envoy Steve Witkoff and Kremlin economic adviser Kirill Dmitriev that asked for sweeping concessions from Ukraine. Zelenskyy's team engaged with the Witkoff-Dmitriev plan, but they did not accept it. Ukraine and its European allies said it rewarded Russia, the aggressor in this war, and gave Ukraine almost nothing. The talks since then have been an attempt to find common ground. Witkoff is in Berlin now, along with Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner, and Witkoff said on Sunday that significant progress had been made.
MARTÍNEZ: Significant progress. So any sense of what that progress could be?
KAKISSIS: It's not clear yet, though a major sticking point has been Ukraine's eastern Donbas region, much of which is now occupied by Russia. The Trump negotiating team has been pushing Ukraine to exchange land for peace, something surveys show Ukrainians strongly oppose. The Trump team has also floated the idea of something called a free economic zone in Donbas. Zelenskyy says he's skeptical. Ukraine would have to withdraw troops from land that it controls.
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ZELENSKYY: (Speaking Ukrainian).
KAKISSIS: He's saying, "who will manage this economic zone? And if Ukraine has to pull back its troops, shouldn't Russia have to do the same?"
MARTÍNEZ: Now, Zelenskyy has said that he is open to reaching a ceasefire along the current front line. How viable would that be?
KAKISSIS: Well, President Trump himself has suggested something similar a few weeks ago, and Zelenskyy strongly supported it. The Russians, though? Not so much. They say they're winning on the battlefield. Zelenskyy tried to challenge the Kremlin's claim last week. He called it disinformation. And he posted what he said was a video of himself walking around the city of Kupiansk in northeastern Ukraine, a city that the Russians claim they have encircled.
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ZELENSKYY: (Speaking Ukrainian).
KAKISSIS: He's saying Ukraine's achievements on the frontline are crucial to its diplomacy. Zelenskyy wants to show Trump that, despite facing a much larger and better-resourced enemy, Ukraine still has cards.
MARTÍNEZ: That's NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Kyiv. Joanna, thanks.
KAKISSIS: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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