SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
Some powerful commentary about today's political landscape might come from a play written in 1959. It takes place in a little community in France, and its premise is ridiculous.
(SOUNDBITE OF PLAY, "RHINOCEROS")
PAUL GIAMATTI: (As Jean) What is going on? What is that?
JOHN TURTURRO: (As Berenger) What is that?
GIAMATTI: (As Jean) Oh. Oh. A rhinoceros.
TURTURRO: (As Berenger) Oh, a rhinoceros.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Oh, a rhinoceros.
PFEIFFER: The town is invaded by rhinos. And that's not all.
DIANE PAULUS: And then people start becoming rhinoceroses. And next thing you know, it's more normal to be a rhinoceros than not to be one.
PFEIFFER: That's Diane Paulus, artistic director of the American Repertory Theater in Cambridge, Massachusetts, where the play is being performed. It's called "Rhinoceros," and its star-studded cast includes actors better known for their TV and movie work - Tatiana Maslany, Paul Giamatti and John Turturro. Here's what Turturro had to say about the play.
TURTURRO: At first, it's funny - at first.
PFEIFFER: But then it suddenly raises serious questions about the symbolism of these growing packs of huge animals thundering through the town.
PAULUS: The question of - what are the rhinoceroses? - is exactly the question we want audiences to be left with. And furthermore, why are all these people becoming rhinoceroses? And why people choose to go with the herd.
PFEIFFER: To understand this play, it helps to know the background of the man who wrote it. Eugene Ionesco was a French Romanian playwright known for his absurdist approach. He had watched Nazism, totalitarianism and fascism sweep through Europe, so he wanted to explore what makes people conform and join destructive mass movements. He used his plays to do that, like "Rhinoceros."
PAULUS: Actually, this is a wackadoo play. But in its wackiness, it's actually more resonant. You know, it's that weird thing of, like, how do you actually talk about what we're going through right now in our world?
PFEIFFER: So what do the rhinos represent in today's world? Are they a metaphor for people who go along with dictatorships or for sycophants who make dictatorships possible? In the play, John Turturro is a sad-sack drunkard named Berenger who's debating whether to join the herd of rhinos. In other words, should he follow the crowd or remain true to himself?
(SOUNDBITE OF PLAY, "RHINOCEROS")
GIAMATTI: (As Jean) Just the sight of them upsets me. It does something to me here, deep, deep, deep inside.
TURTURRO: (As Berenger) I think that you're right to have some sort of reaction, but you go too far. Try and see the funny side of things.
GIAMATTI: (As Jean) Funny? I'm part of it. I can't be indifferent.
TURTURRO: (As Berenger) If you start worrying about everything, you'll never be able to go on living.
PFEIFFER: I asked Turturro if the play is meant to be overtly political.
TURTURRO: Everything is political (laughter), I mean, in a way. I don't like when it's force-fed and is stuck down your throat. I'd like it to be open to interpretation.
PFEIFFER: There is a somewhat show-stealing scene, in my view, when Paul Giamatti transforms into a rhino. And it's this gradual herky-jerky process where he sort of starts head-butting and pawing, and it's - it was quite spellbinding as an audience member to watch.
(SOUNDBITE OF PLAY, "RHINOCEROS")
GIAMATTI: (As Jean) I don't feel very well. I don't feel very well.
TURTURRO: (As Berenger) Well, what do you think it is?
GIAMATTI: (As Jean) I don't know exactly, but something's wrong.
TURTURRO: (As Berenger) Do you feel weak?
GIAMATTI: (As Jean) Oh, no. Not at all. On the contrary. No, everything's just bubbling up inside.
TURTURRO: (As Berenger) Bubbling?
GIAMATTI: (As Jean) Yeah. Seething. Boiling. Cooking.
TURTURRO: (As Berenger) Yeah.
PFEIFFER: I'm wondering, John, what it was like for you to witness your co-star on stage transforming in front of you.
TURTURRO: It's scary.
(LAUGHTER)
TURTURRO: It's scary. No one has the point of view that I have. What is going on with my friend?
PAULUS: I want to put a GoPro on your head.
TURTURRO: Yeah. It's...
PAULUS: And, like, watch the video of what it looks like.
TURTURRO: Yeah. It's really freaky. And my character keeps trying to deny it and try to say, OK. You're just joking around. You're doing something crazy. And I think people do deny until it's too late. Whether it's climate change, whatever it is, they do not want to accept certain things. So it is a - like, a tour-de-force kind of scene.
PFEIFFER: Diane, that transformation of Paul Giamatti into the rhino happens without any costumes or prosthetics. And I realized that in the 1960s, the famous actor Zero Mostel won a Tony for his own rhino transformation in the same play, but he did it very differently.
PAULUS: I felt we didn't need green makeup and prosthetics. That would make it, in a way, too literal. In the original, every time he comes out of the bathroom, he has more makeup. He has more of a horn. And I thought, if we can put into Paul's performance the transformation happening physically, vocally, then for the audience, we're more in Berenger's shoes. Like, what is happening to this person, to this human? So he was game for that approach, and he's an extraordinary actor.
PFEIFFER: The American Repertory Theater is in Harvard Square in ultraliberal Cambridge. In some sense, it's largely preaching to the crowd. I'm wondering if you see the message of this play changing any minds or making anyone in the non-Cambridge crowd think differently about modern political issues.
PAULUS: You know, I actually feel very passionate that this play can be resonant for many, many people across all political affiliations. You can really put the quest of - what does it mean to hold on to your individuality, your originality, to stand aside from the crowd? - into many, many contexts.
PFEIFFER: John, both you and Paul went to the Yale School of Drama. You're both experienced both on film screens and on theater stages. They're obviously two very different animals. How do you think this play would have been different if you weren't doing it in front of a live audience but instead were doing it on film?
TURTURRO: I don't think it would work. It's a theatrical piece. Films, unfortunately, sometimes show you almost too much. They don't leave stuff for your imagination, you know? And actually, I think Diane's instinct to air on the sound - what does sound do? You hear a train whistle, you imagine the whole train, you know? And sometimes you can see too much. Not everything can be a TV show or a movie. Some things are built for what they are.
PFEIFFER: That's John Turturro - he stars in "Rhinoceros," now playing at the American Repertory Theater in Cambridge, Massachusetts - and Diane Paulus, the theater's artistic director. Thanks to both of you.
TURTURRO: Thank you for having us.
PAULUS: Thank you. Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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